Curse

MalibuBarbie · Jul 17, 2011, 01:07 AM // 01:07

I am pretty sure that we did Minister Cho's Estate just fine. You just can't Speedclear through it like most players...in Zombiemode..are doing regularly in this game. Learn to take your time and plan some strategies before just rushing in and you will complete it no problem.

PS. Anet stop nerfing the quests/missions to make them easier..makes the challenge disappear

I am Judge · Jul 17, 2011, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

As it stands, we were too late, we should've done so before doing any WoC quests it seems. If the spawns of Cho's place don't change, we'll get that vanquish done eventually, but each of us will have to do it alone with a completely optimized set of 3 heroes. This kind of nonsense has us not wanting to play again for the moment though, which can't be the point of new content.

Before posting derogatory responses to this, please take a moment and actually have a look at the MCE explorable on HM with scavenger spawns. And try to vanquish it with a party of 2 human rangers, one of whom isn't exactly an 'elite' player, no cons, and any 2 heroes you like.

The game is obviously to hard for your enjoyment. Darn for HM to being Harder than Normal Mode, and that Winds of Change is something after completion of campaign.

Out of your 2 rangers. Was one of them a Signet of Spirits? and Let me guess the other Barrage?

Perhaps look at the conditions that a ranger could pump out and even interrupts. Blindness is very nice against pretty much all groups in Winds of Change. Perhaps have one ranger who can run throw dirt, and perhaps shadow step out while crippling or poising everything it just blinded, while popping off some arrows that interrupt a caster.

Jeydra · Jul 17, 2011, 02:26 AM // 02:26

I bet you a hundred ectos I can do this using two Ranger heroes.

I'm sorry you're bad at this game

Gli · Jul 17, 2011, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I bet you a hundred ectos I can do this using two Ranger heroes.

I'm sorry you're bad at this game

I have no interest in playing this immature 'mine is bigger than yours' game you seem so keen on.

My point was and still is that these new spawns are unreasonably difficult to vanquish. Not impossible, but difficult, unreasonably so for a party size 4 area.

Feel free to disagree or agree, I don't care. I also don't care what you can and cannot do.

Jeydra · Jul 17, 2011, 02:59 AM // 02:59

In which case I more or less destroyed your argument, because I showed (well, without screenshots anyway) that the VQ can be done using two Ranger heroes, and your main problem with it was that you can't do it with two player Rangers (shows just how narrow your vision of Guild Wars is btw).

You could say the area is "unreasonably difficult to vanquish", but if we accept that we'd also have to say that "UW is unreasonably difficult to do 7H" or maybe "Gates of Morah is unreasonably difficult to do with 8 Ranger parties" and after nerfing everything we'll end up with "ANet is retarded, they made everything too easy".

You basically fall directly into the description I made earlier. You are bad at this game, yet instead of getting better you are choosing to complain. Well, ANet made this game with people like you in mind. Use cons pcons summoning stones DP removal and don't even think about complaining that you have to use them, because you're already choosing not to get better.

Regards.

Swingline · Jul 17, 2011, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am Judge

people don't realize that there are other skills in the game.

I am willing to bet most people do realize there are other skills but see them as complete trash which many are due to pve skills and powercreep. Theres a clear reason why anet abandoned GW1 for GW2 and that is because of the overwhelming complexity of balancing so many skills as each campaign came out. Now when you have meta skills that players are using then give those skills to enemies throughout the game and then give them the ability to counter them, what is 90% of the player base that just wants to have a good time left with? This is PvE in a game after all.

Another thing to consider is this game was once PvP oriented. Over the years PvP has become more and more shunned by the live team and the game has now become PvE oriented. In the beginning PvE was just mobs using the same skills over and over but now after 5 years of killing the same mobs we now have new ones which don't carry the same skills the last spawn had before. Now players are exposed to something they are not used to while playing the other 99% of the game.

We are getting end game type content added to earlier parts of Guild Wars with very little regard to the limitations of those earlier parts.

I am Judge · Jul 17, 2011, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

I am willing to bet most people do realize there are other skills but see them as complete trash which many are due to pve skills and powercreep. Theres a clear reason why anet abandoned GW1 for GW2 and that is because of the overwhelming complexity of balancing so many skills as each campaign came out. Now when you have meta skills that players are using then give those skills to enemies throughout the game and then give them the ability to counter them, what is 90% of the player base that just wants to have a good time left with? This is PvE in a game after all.

Another thing to consider is this game was once PvP oriented. Over the years PvP has become more and more shunned by the live team and the game has now become PvE oriented. In the beginning PvE was just mobs using the same skills over and over but now after 5 years of killing the same mobs we now have new ones which don't carry the same skills the last spawn had before. Now players are exposed to something they are not used to while playing the other 99% of the game.

We are getting end game type content added to earlier parts of Guild Wars with very little regard to the limitations of those earlier parts.

WoC is after Factions Campaign. So it's not necessarily earlier part. There are people that also like to do puzzles, and accept challenges as that is fun to them. On the other hand some like to play Farmville.

As easily as it was given to enemies to counter the meta, it's also available to the players to do the same.

Just because everything doesn't die in 2seconds. While some thought may be needed, the tendency of complaining to get everything made easier overwhelms those who enjoy some difficulty without having to self handicap. Adaptation, not crutching is often times more pleasant.

But it seems that adaptation in video games is seemingly obsolete.

Laylat · Jul 17, 2011, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am Judge

Just because everything doesn't die in 2seconds.

Things do die in 2 seconds... just not the enemy.

Having already vanquished this area long before WoC, I am quite curious to try it out. Not being "pressured" by the potential constant 32/33, it may entice for interesting builds.

I am Judge · Jul 17, 2011, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laylat

Things do die in 2 seconds... just not the enemy.

Having already vanquished this area long before WoC, I am quite curious to try it out. Not being "pressured" by the potential constant 32/33, it may entice for interesting builds.

Oh it does entice very interesting combinations. To myself, that's part of the fun figuring out those combo's to counter act against the foes and the awareness level of some of it.

Swingline · Jul 17, 2011, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am Judge

WoC is after Factions Campaign. So it's not necessarily earlier part.

You seem to miss the point. These areas were designed to train players to work with others for higher end content. Now we have mobs that are far stronger than 90% of the end game mobs occupying starter areas with a party limit of 4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am Judge

There are people that also like to do puzzles, and accept challenges as that is fun to them.

Challenges should present themselves in end game content and not reappear in starter areas. Niche player bases should have harder content in Niche areas such as a dungeon. Content 100% of the player base has been waiting for should not stop them dead in their tracks less than half way through just because 10% want a challenge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am Judge

As easily as it was given to enemies to counter the meta, it's also available to the players to do the same.

Hardly, with rotating skill bars people now have to spend hours trying to figure out what works and even then they can run into a mob with a certain skill setup that may make them max out dp or cause them to abandon their VQ, thus wasting their leisure time. Not everyone is an unemployed pothead with that much time to spare.

Rotating skill bars such as the ones scavengers and the white mantle have should be in the elite areas of the game to deal with the speed clear problem. I'm talking about FoW, UW, Deep, Urgoz, DoA and EotN dungeons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am Judge

While some thought may be needed, the tendency of complaining to get everything made easier overwhelms those who enjoy some difficulty without having to self handicap.

Same exact thing can be said to that niche player base complaining about how easy the content is that they have been burning through over and over for months. Now those elitists have content that puts a brick wall in front of the casual player along with purple weapons. Doesn't seem that overwhelming to me.

I find it funny that people are asking mommy anet to handicap them when they cant get the juice themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am Judge

But it seems that adaptation in video games is seemingly obsolete.

This is wrong, adaption is not becoming obsolete but more efficient. This can be seen in GW2 where you can change skills at the press of a button by weapon swapping.

FoxBat · Jul 17, 2011, 06:52 AM // 06:52

I expect that they literally copy-pastad spawns from haiju lagoon, i.e. designed to challenge in a 6-man area. Pure oversight.

I am Judge · Jul 17, 2011, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

This is wrong, adaption is not becoming obsolete but more efficient. This can be seen in GW2 where you can change skills at the press of a button by weapon swapping.

Why then is this post here and you defending it?

Lanier · Jul 17, 2011, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Simplest solution is probably just to cut the mobs down to 3-4 monsters each.

Going to have to agree with this.

I havent actually done these quests or vqs yet. However, I had been working on the canthan VQ title before WoC came out. By the time it was released, I had finished all but haiju lagoon (and that short trail on shing jea). Figuring that WoC would only affect the city, I started it when it first came out. I know its a 6 man areas, so its not as in as bad a shape as cho's estate. But still, I guess I'm going to wait for WoC to conclude before I attempt completing my title.

chuckles79 · Jul 18, 2011, 11:53 PM // 23:53

/signed

MCE was difficult before WoC. It took patience and planning.
Making it harder is unnecessary and cruel. Also, I thought the thinking of the WoC quests was to make life safer for the inhabitants, not harder. Doesn't it kinda take the fun out the quests if all you are doing is making the game harder?

Example, you cleanse an area. You should have fewer overall foes for a VQ, but the enemies should be stronger and PvX quality builds.

Doesn't that thinking seem right?

Rainstorm13 · Jul 23, 2011, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Jeydra, would you care to share the builds/tactics you would use to vanquish this? Because I'm 32/33 for Canthan Vanquisher, and the farthest I've gotten into this is about 120 foes when i ran into a group with two Witches with Word of Healing, a Chaplain with Life Sheath, and a Ringleader that had Signet of Return. I was able to get one Witch down, but by then, my minion wall was just about gone and the Witch was ressed right away. I was 60'ed out soon after that, since without a minion wall to absorb some of the damage and the partywide dp, my heroes couldn't get rolling again.

I think the area would be much more balanced if scavenger groups were reduced to 4 per group. With the PvX quality skill bars, the ridiculous armor/attributes and pets/minions the area is still going to be challenging, but not impossible.

Jeydra · Jul 24, 2011, 03:25 PM // 15:25

This isn't the right place to discuss it, but: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...t10447337.html

Use the SoS, the SoGM and the MB (with Rend Enchantments. Set up a spirit wall (they're always available) for every mob, then AP spike the Monks down. Worst case scenario, do long pulls.

The Drunkard · Jul 26, 2011, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Decided to try it for giggles and laughs, bad idea on my part

During my attempt there were mobs that had 2+ healers, which I was not able to take down without PI spamming with FS support to lock down the entire mob(AP was utter trash here). There's also the issue that these mobs are located quite close to one another (where monks of different mobs will join the fray if you don't pull from long distances with a bow).

While not impossible, it's quite frustrating to be put in a 4v6 situation where the other players are running decent builds. It would be nice to add some incentive (in the form of commendations from a vanquish quest) or simply reducing the size of the mobs to four.

/signed

Plutoman · Jul 27, 2011, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Honestly, for a vanquish, it's ridiculous. I love the challenge, and I'll enjoy completing it, but I don't think it should be a requirement for those VQ titles, because it's much, much more difficult than any other vanquish.

This is more of an elite area type thing. If elite areas had these types of mobs, they would actually be elite.

InfamousMyzt · Jul 27, 2011, 06:22 AM // 06:22

/signed

2,000 hours on my to-be-gwamm and I can't possibly do these areas after WoC.

Gli · Jul 30, 2011, 07:44 AM // 07:44

I noticed it's the Zaishen vanquish quest for the day. I wonder how many people are going to cash in their 50 copper.